Wikimedia:Chatlogs/irc://irc.freenode.net/nl.wikimedia/20050623

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  • [23/06/2005 22:11] =-= Topic for #nl.wikimedia is „Volgende geplande chat van Wikimedia Nederland i.o. is donderdag 23 juni 2005 om 22:00 CEST ter voorbereiding van de eerste nl.wikimedia.org ontmoeting, zie http://nl.wikimedia.org”
  • [23/06/2005 22:11] =-= Topic for #nl.wikimedia was set by Dedalus_ on 21 June 2005 22:09:16
  • [23/06/2005 22:12] <oscar-> yo :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:12] <oscar-> sorry ben wat laat
  • [23/06/2005 22:12] <oscar-> hoi cicero- :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:12] <oscar-> hoi deda|way :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:15] <cicero-> hoi oscar :)
  • [23/06/2005 22:15] <cicero-> het is hier erg stil...
  • [23/06/2005 22:15] <oscar-> ja :-( is er geen wikimedia chat zoals aangekondigd!?
  • [23/06/2005 22:15] <oscar-> en gerardm is er ook niet, noch de aangekondigde *sterren*
  • [23/06/2005 22:16] <oscar-> "Voor deze chat zijn inmiddels Jimbo, Angela, Anthere en Ryo uitgenodigd, en is deze vermeld op meta (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters). Dedalus 21 jun 2005 08:23 (UTC)"
  • [23/06/2005 22:17] <cicero-> tja, ik verwachtte ook dat er iets zou zijn...
  • [23/06/2005 22:17] <cicero-> ik heb nergens gehoord dat het niet zou doorgaan
  • [23/06/2005 22:18] <oscar-> ik ook niet
  • [23/06/2005 22:18] <oscar-> en ik ben nog wel speciaal ervoor ergens weggegaan en heb mijn dagindeling erop ingericht etc :-(
  • [23/06/2005 22:18] <oscar-> *grmbl*
  • [23/06/2005 22:19] <cicero-> ik kwam eigenlijk alleen een beetje "meeluisteren" en eventueel bekijken wat wikimedia voor li: kan betekenen... maar op deze manier komt daar weinig van terecht, natuurlijk
  • [23/06/2005 22:19] <cicero-> :(
  • [23/06/2005 22:22] -->| galwaygirl (~chatzilla@a82-92-209-14.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:23] <oscar-> cicero- klopt
  • [23/06/2005 22:23] <oscar-> gelukkig ben ik niet helemaal voor niets er nu
  • [23/06/2005 22:23] <oscar-> ik kon en passant de beide nieuwe mods benoemen
  • [23/06/2005 22:23] <oscar-> die trappelden van ongeduld wed ik ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:24] -->| mark- (mark@tilia.nedworks.org) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:24] <oscar-> ahA er komen toch nog mensen binnen, beter laat dan nooit ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:25] <oscar-> yo galwaygirl, mark- :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:25] <galwaygirl> yo O
  • [23/06/2005 22:25] <galwaygirl> was het een beetje aan het vergeten, bezig in de tuin enzo...
  • [23/06/2005 22:25] <galwaygirl> 't is inderdaad te warm
  • [23/06/2005 22:26] <cicero-> hoi galwaygirl
  • [23/06/2005 22:26] -->| Anthere (Anthere@AClermont-Ferrand-251-1-59-248.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <galwaygirl> hallo cicero-! en anderen
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <galwaygirl> hi anthere
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <Anthere> hi
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <Anthere> ooops, is the meeting already over ?`
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <oscar-> yo anthere :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <oscar-> looks like it eh ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] -->| ad- (~chatzilla@g112179.upc-g.chello.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <oscar-> nope :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <oscar-> hasn't started yet
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <Anthere> okay
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <Anthere> do you know when it will ?
  • [23/06/2005 22:27] <Anthere> do I have a short time ?
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <oscar-> we can start anytime, but some people are missing
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <oscar-> a short ime anther?
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <Anthere> I'll be back in 15 mn
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <oscar-> ok
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <Anthere> hopefully, I will stay online so can read the beginning
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <mark-> hoi :)
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <Anthere> not sure it will keep the line though
  • [23/06/2005 22:28] <oscar-> i am loggin the chat anyway
  • [23/06/2005 22:29] <oscar-> not for publishing but just in order you know ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:30] <oscar-> not to lose the brilliant moments due to hardware problems :-P
  • [23/06/2005 22:34] * mark- inserts a brilliant moment
  • [23/06/2005 22:40] =-= Deda|way is now known as Dedalus_
  • [23/06/2005 22:40] <Dedalus_> Hi
  • [23/06/2005 22:40] <galwaygirl> hoi
  • [23/06/2005 22:41] <galwaygirl> oscar- are you trying to find the missing people?
  • [23/06/2005 22:42] *oscar- telefonnert ff prive
  • [23/06/2005 22:42] <Dedalus_> Sorry for being very late.
  • [23/06/2005 22:42] <galwaygirl> we haven't started yet
  • [23/06/2005 22:42] -->| Angela (~Angela@Angela.wikipedia) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:42] <Dedalus_> Hi Angela
  • [23/06/2005 22:43] <Angela> hi. sorry for being late
  • [23/06/2005 22:44] -->| GerardM (~chatzilla@h141112.upc-h.chello.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:44] <oscar-> no problem angela
  • [23/06/2005 22:44] <Dedalus_> There are several things to discuss, one is http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Purpose
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] -->| Fruggo (~Fruggo@cc669718-a.groni1.gr.home.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Fruggo> goedenavond! heb ik alle gezelligheid al gemist?
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Dedalus_> Hi Fruggo GerardM
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <oscar-> nee :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <GerardM> :)
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <oscar-> we are just starting
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Fruggo> heel goed!
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <oscar-> :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Fruggo> ehm.. very good!
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <oscar-> hehehe
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Dedalus_> There are several things to discuss, one is http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Purpose
  • [23/06/2005 22:45] <Fruggo> i presume we are talking english here?
  • [23/06/2005 22:46] <Fruggo> (hi angela and anthere)
  • [23/06/2005 22:46] <oscar-> btw hi fruggo and gerardm
  • [23/06/2005 22:46] <GerardM> Hoi everyone :)
  • [23/06/2005 22:46] <Dedalus_> another one is a first nl.wikimedia.org meeting IRL - it is quite hard to agree on a date
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] <oscar-> i think the first thing we shoud discuss is the meetup itself
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] <Dedalus_> this meetup or the 3 July one
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] -->| kim_bruning (~kim@bruning.xs4all.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] <oscar-> we seem to bee unable to find a date where more than 3 people can come?
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] <oscar-> so far
  • [23/06/2005 22:47] <kim_bruning> Hello!
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <oscar-> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <Fruggo> 3 is very little
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <oscar-> hi kim :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <Angela> hi Kim
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <oscar-> fruggo yes
  • [23/06/2005 22:48] <GerardM> From a practical point of view, the next funding thingie will be in September I read somewhere .. it would help to have things sufficiently organised by then.
  • [23/06/2005 22:49] <oscar-> anthere, how did you start in france, also with a prepatory meetup?
  • [23/06/2005 22:49] <oscar-> in italy this worked good, or so i heard
  • [23/06/2005 22:49] <oscar-> http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Incontro_di_Viterbo--17-18_giugno_2005
  • [23/06/2005 22:50] <oscar-> and read as far as my italian permits ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:50] <Angela> the meetup for France was about 3 or 4 months before the chapter was actually formed
  • [23/06/2005 22:50] <Dedalus_> oscar-: wasn't the first meeting in Italy with a notary?
  • [23/06/2005 22:50] <oscar-> L'appuntamento è per le ore 19.30 ci aspettano al massimo alle ore 20.00 (i Notai accumulano sempre ritardi sugli appuntamenti...)
  • [23/06/2005 22:51] <Angela> perhaps the meeting needs to be a bit later. July is vert short notice if you want a high turnout
  • [23/06/2005 22:51] <oscar-> seems he was late
  • [23/06/2005 22:51] <oscar-> but they met
  • [23/06/2005 22:51] <oscar-> gerardm, the funding drive need not make us hurry i understood
  • [23/06/2005 22:52] <oscar-> angela, am i right?
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] <oscar-> anthere?
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] <Angela> I don't see any reason to rish it for that, no
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] <Angela> s/rish/rush
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] <oscar-> :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] <GerardM> We have been talking for quite some time and, in my opinion we have not progressed a bit over the last month at least. When we have a purpose for a "vereniging", when we have the minimal requirements in the statutes and leave the rest to the "reglementen". We can have our verengiging easily at that time
  • [23/06/2005 22:53] -->| Obarskyr (~obarskyr@d51525DE7.access.telenet.be) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <oscar-> who is *we* in that case?
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <GerardM> These minimal requirements is what the law expects of us
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <Angela> is there consensus on it being a vereniging now?
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <oscar-> not clear to me
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <oscar-> it seems so
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <oscar-> but imho there are just too few people involved so far
  • [23/06/2005 22:54] <Dedalus_> what we need is essentially at least three people who want to visit a notary to pass the statutes
  • [23/06/2005 22:55] <GerardM> This *we* is my impression of what *we* have done the last month
  • [23/06/2005 22:55] <Dedalus_> over a month ago it was concluded that it should be a vereniging
  • [23/06/2005 22:55] <oscar-> gerardm, how many people is that?
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <GerardM> Which we .. I am talking about what I observed in the wiki
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <kim_bruning> the consensus is vereniging, but we don't have enough people to make one ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <kim_bruning> kinda covers it
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <GerardM> To make a vereniging you need three people.
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <kim_bruning> GerardM, to make it useful you need some more :-P
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <GerardM> So what is enough
  • [23/06/2005 22:56] <kim_bruning> ah well
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <kim_bruning> start doing some activities already, and see what's going on
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <kim_bruning> if there's enough people needing the vereniging we do it
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <kim_bruning> it's like first need one then make one
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <oscar-> but to have an association funtion properly you will need many more as members
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <kim_bruning> not first make one and then "gosh what shall we do with it?"
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <GerardM> It is a chicken and egg situation; we do not have people as there is no vereniging and there is no vereniging yet as there are few people
  • [23/06/2005 22:57] <kim_bruning> that's a bit silly :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <oscar-> so let's muster them first
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <kim_bruning> oscar-, what's an unofficial bunch of people that happen to be cooperating called? ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <oscar-> get them interested, involved
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <GerardM> We have defined some purpose
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <Fruggo> GerardM: do you believe that when there is a vereniging, the people will come automatically?
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <oscar-> kim_bruning: beats me
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <GerardM> No, when we have a vereniging we can start doing many of the thing that it is meant to do
  • [23/06/2005 22:58] <kim_bruning> oscar-, calling ourselves AnUnofficaialBunchOfPeopleWhoHappenToBeCooperatingReWikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 22:59] <kim_bruning> might be a liiiiiitle tricky then
  • [23/06/2005 22:59] <oscar-> :-)
  • [23/06/2005 22:59] <GerardM> You have to incorporate as a vereniging in order to do things like having a bank account.
  • [23/06/2005 23:00] <Dedalus_> what kim_bruning mentions are actually 77 registered editors of nl.wikimedio.org which is a little more than 3
  • [23/06/2005 23:00] -->| jeroenvrp (~jeroenvrp@uptown.xs4all.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:00] <galwaygirl> but only a few want to meet in person
  • [23/06/2005 23:00] <Dedalus_> we just didn't have chosen a board, a president, a secretary or a treasurer
  • [23/06/2005 23:00] <oscar-> buckminster fuller: "form follows function", it does not work the other way around gerardm
  • [23/06/2005 23:01] <GerardM> Who the F is buckminster fuller
  • [23/06/2005 23:01] <oscar-> he's on the wikipedia's
  • [23/06/2005 23:01] <GerardM> And I do not see what you are saying
  • [23/06/2005 23:01] -->| tavla (~spreker@ip51cfa1ef.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:01] <oscar-> http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller
  • [23/06/2005 23:02] <oscar-> that a form is only taking shape if a function is performed
  • [23/06/2005 23:02] <oscar-> and not hte other way around
  • [23/06/2005 23:02] <Dedalus_> the form is http://nl.wikimedia.org
  • [23/06/2005 23:02] <oscar-> in our case, an assotiation should come out of the activities
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <oscar-> not the other way around
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <GerardM> So we have a function as it comes from what the objectives are
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <oscar-> activities
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <oscar-> as to what's taking place
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <GerardM> There are people interested in cooperating on these
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <oscar-> so am i
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <oscar-> so are we
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <GerardM> So we have the parts
  • [23/06/2005 23:03] <Fruggo> GerardM/oscar; did we ever focus on what we need a vereniging for?
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <GerardM> so I do not see your point
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <Fruggo> except the 'having a bank account'?
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <GerardM> Yes, Fruggo we did
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <Fruggo> ok
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <oscar-> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Doelstelling
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <oscar-> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Purpose
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <oscar-> for the english version
  • [23/06/2005 23:04] <Fruggo> oscar: that is not what I mean; we do not _need_ a vereniging for making online encyclopedias.
  • [23/06/2005 23:05] <GerardM> Now Angela told me in Amsterdam that it is best to stay clear for a chapter as much as possible from the projects
  • [23/06/2005 23:05] <oscar-> fruggo "For this reason, WIKIMEDIA NEDERLAND aims to promote and to support, directly or indirectly, the applications, transpositions, exploitations or translations, of Wikimedia Foundation projects."
  • [23/06/2005 23:05] <Fruggo> we _do_ need a vereniging for fundraising. since we do need a vereniging, we make the doelstelling/purpose broader than the fundraising.
  • [23/06/2005 23:05] <Angela> is there a reason Wikiquote isn't mentioned in section 6?
  • [23/06/2005 23:06] <oscar-> forgoten
  • [23/06/2005 23:06] <GerardM> There is no reason.
  • [23/06/2005 23:06] <kim_bruning> oscar-, Angela, maybe not mention the projects in the document that costs a lot to change?
  • [23/06/2005 23:07] <kim_bruning> put that in the um regelementen
  • [23/06/2005 23:07] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: yes, as much as possible in the reglementen
  • [23/06/2005 23:07] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, thank ye!
  • [23/06/2005 23:08] <Fruggo> and certainly no limitative "opsommingen" (my english gave up on me)
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <GerardM> The only thing necessary is that it is obvious that we have charitable intentions and that we support the WMF in the Netherlands
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <Fruggo> enumerations
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <Angela> you should make it clear that the chapter doesn't control the content or the users of any Wikimedia project or website
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] -->| Patio (~chatzilla@nk-c-f9f8.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <Fruggo> angela; that is for juridical reasons?
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <GerardM> Angela, from my perspective the nl.wikipedia is as Belgian as it is Dutch
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <oscar-> angela "WIKIMEDIA NEDERLAND does not have any editorial responsibility on these sites, except for the pages created for its own needs." is not strong enough then
  • [23/06/2005 23:09] <Fruggo> not being liable?
  • [23/06/2005 23:10] <Dedalus_> Angela: that is ruled in section 7
  • [23/06/2005 23:10] <GerardM> Not to be harassed by take down notices and what have you
  • [23/06/2005 23:10] -->| Ant (Anthere@AClermont-Ferrand-251-1-55-92.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <kim_bruning> oscar-, how about "except for nl.wikimedia.org" ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <Angela> legal reasons, but also social ones. The chapter shouldn't be seen to have any editorial control over normal users of the sites
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <kim_bruning> oscar-, that way people have less wiggle room
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <Ant> hi, sorry
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <kim_bruning> actually you don't even need to go except for
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <oscar-> kim_bruning sounds good
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <kim_bruning> just say "No editorial responsibility whatsoever"
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <oscar-> hi ant :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:11] <kim_bruning> oscar-, else like some nazi vandalises us, and we're in trouble :-P
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <kim_bruning> No godwin intended ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <mark-> too late
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <mark-> you lose
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <kim_bruning> mark-, it
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <Dedalus_> Angela: is section 7 not sufficient? what should be added?
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <kim_bruning> it's like "no pun intended" :-P
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <Ant> hmmm
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <GerardM> it is not just editorial responsibilty, it is also juridical responsiblikty
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <oscar-> kim_bruning the article speaks of "responsibility" but angela spoke of "control"
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <Ant> could someone possibly provide me with relevant links ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, it's ot what you add, it's what you take away :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:12] <kim_bruning> not what you add even
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <oscar-> "The chapter shouldn't be seen to have any editorial control over normal users of the sites"
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <Fruggo> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten#voorbereidende_chat
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <Dedalus_> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Purpose
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <GerardM> When it gives the impression that it is "our" projects ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <Angela> it shouldn't have control _or_ responsibility
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <oscar-> ok
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <GerardM> exactly
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <Ant> thanks
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] * Ant restart netscape
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <Angela> that doesn't mean you can all go out of control and act irresponsibly though ;)
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <--| Patio has left #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:13] <oscar-> :-D
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] <Fruggo> angela : pity ;)
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] <oscar-> pity
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] <GerardM> :D
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] <mark-> angela, it's not a good idea then... they do little else on nlwp ;)
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] -->| gpvos (~gpvos@elbereth.xs4all.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:14] <Dedalus_> the whole intention of section 7 is to deny any control or responsibility over the projects
  • [23/06/2005 23:15] <Ant> sorry, did you already go through point 1 .
  • [23/06/2005 23:15] <oscar-> mark why thx :-S
  • [23/06/2005 23:15] <Dedalus_> hi Ant what is your point
  • [23/06/2005 23:16] <Ant> just small
  • [23/06/2005 23:16] <Ant> # are made available to the public by the authors under a free documentation license
  • [23/06/2005 23:16] <Ant> is documentation here a good idea ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:17] <Ant> since we do not do only "documentation" or "text" ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:17] <GerardM> I agree with you ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <oscar-> free conten license then
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <oscar-> content
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <oscar-> or?
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <Ant> point 4 : what does this exactly mean ? Did someone commented on that ? # The association shall take the responsiblities of a section (Local Chapter) of the Wikimedia Foundation Inc. (Florida, USA).
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <Ant> free licence should be fine, no ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:18] <GerardM> Just free license ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:19] <oscar-> ok
  • [23/06/2005 23:19] <oscar-> it's like that in dutch actually :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:19] <oscar-> vrije beschikbaarstelling
  • [23/06/2005 23:20] <GerardM> Beschikbaarstelling is NOT license
  • [23/06/2005 23:20] -->| Noorse (~mi@c529d01c7.cable.wanadoo.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:20] <GerardM> license implies that a legal document is at its base
  • [23/06/2005 23:20] <oscar-> ah!
  • [23/06/2005 23:20] <oscar-> so in dutch it should be changed
  • [23/06/2005 23:21] <GerardM> Not necessarily, the two should match up
  • [23/06/2005 23:21] <GerardM> you can also say something like "should be made freely available "
  • [23/06/2005 23:21] |<-- Anthere has left irc.freenode.net (Connection timed out)
  • [23/06/2005 23:21] =-= Ant is now known as Anthere
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <Fruggo> available = beschikbaar, so 'vrije beschikbaarstelling' would be the same as 'freely available'
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <Obarskyr> why not just stating GNU Free Documentation License , or has it to be a 'dutch' term ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <Dedalus_> i was reading - the translation to english is bad, the original in dutch is good, that is, the dutch original in section 1 corresponds to a translation of section 1 of the french bylaws
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <Fruggo> GNU might not last
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <Anthere> no, because it is not the only licence we use
  • [23/06/2005 23:22] <GerardM> The GFDL is not the only license that we use
  • [23/06/2005 23:23] <Anthere> or will use in the future
  • [23/06/2005 23:23] <GerardM> :)
  • [23/06/2005 23:23] <Dedalus_> the mentioning of fdl in purpose is wrong
  • [23/06/2005 23:23] <Anthere> dedalus and what about the italian translation ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:23] <Anthere> maybe better ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:24] <Dedalus_> i understand the point to be not to mention a specific license, the dutch original of section 1 does not mention a specific license
  • [23/06/2005 23:24] <Dedalus_> and i do not read italian
  • [23/06/2005 23:24] <oscar-> personally i am getting pressed for time, sorry that we started so late :-(
  • [23/06/2005 23:24] <oscar-> anyway, before i have to go, i am very sorry for this, we need to find a solution for the meetup which isn't going to work at all the way it looks right now
  • [23/06/2005 23:24] <oscar-> we cannot avoid postponing it i am afraid, what are you views on this?
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <galwaygirl> why not?
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <oscar-> a meeeting with 3 people makes no sense
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <Angela> perhaps postponing it would give you more time to find some more people to be involved
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <GerardM> What is the purpose of the meeting ? Why do we meet what do we achieve that way ??
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <oscar-> think so 2
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <Anthere> the point 4 ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:25] <Anthere> Ant: point 4 : what does this exactly mean ? Did someone commented on that ? # The association shall take the responsiblities of a section (Local Chapter) of the Wikimedia Foundation Inc. (Florida, USA).
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <Anthere> you can clean up some areas
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <Anthere> italians were basically just 3
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <galwaygirl> oscar- so just take more time
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, The FSF aims to last as long or longer than the wikimedia foundation
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] -->| koko (~koko@dD576ED14.access.telenet.be) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <Dedalus_> that is like the way the germans did it in their bylaws
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, so the whole GPL and GFDL are fine :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <Fruggo> kim: fsf?
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, the people who make GNU :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <Fruggo> ah
  • [23/06/2005 23:26] <kim_bruning> www.fsf.org
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, check 'em out
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Fruggo> ok
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Dedalus_> the german bylaws read: The Verein shall take the responsiblities of a section (Local Chapter) of the Wikimedia Foundation Inc. (Florida, USA). The Verein's independence is not affected by this. The Wikimedia Foundation acts as the umbrella organization for all national Wikimedia sections, it coordinates the activities according to the Verein's purpose within the internactional sector and it...
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Dedalus_> ...manages the name Wikimedia as well as the names of the various international Wikimedia projects.
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Dedalus_> Anthere: what is your point?
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Anthere> hum
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <Anthere> 10. No person may benefit through spendings which are not necessary for the promotion of its aims or through disproportionally high payments.
  • [23/06/2005 23:27] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, also see: http://www.fsfeurope.org/
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, actually have we invited fsfe folks to wikimania? I'd bet they'd love to come!
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <GerardM> So when we create a "vereniging" we can meet up and have the basics in. They are the objectives, we are discussing them, and we need the minimal statutes ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Anthere> Dedalus, mostly that I do not exactly know what type of responsability is involved
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Anthere> it is very unclear
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Angela> kim_bruning: yes we have, including RMS
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: I'm looking for the "edit"button on the fsf-page, there is a spelling mistake ;(
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <GerardM> RMS is coming :)
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Angela> oh, you meant fsfe not fsf. In which case, maybe not
  • [23/06/2005 23:28] <Dedalus_> what is the problem with the german bylaws?
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <Dedalus_> section 4 states WMN is a local chapter of WMF
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <Anthere> well, mostly that the text about responsability is unclear
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, ROTFL! ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, Good point, ask jimbo to offer the FSF wiki services ;-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <kim_bruning> Angela, Ah cool!
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <Anthere> ... Angela, what are the responsabilities of the german chapter ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:29] <Fruggo> haha
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, seriously, /msg jwales when you see him
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <GerardM> The responsibilites would be that as a chapter we represent the WMF and that we are good in the way that we do that
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, or put a message on his User Talk on en, or use wikipedia email or so
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <kim_bruning> :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <Angela> Anthere: I don't know exactly
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, Or like go to wikimania and tell Richard Stallman you'd like to install one for him ;)
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <Fruggo> :)
  • [23/06/2005 23:30] <Dedalus_> if section 4 is changed to "WMN is a local chapter of WMF" would that cover your point?
  • [23/06/2005 23:31] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, I'm serious too! :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:31] <Angela> I expect it's defined somewhere or else it was just obvious to them what it was, in which case we should just ask them
  • [23/06/2005 23:31] <GerardM> I will hopefully speak with him about the GFDL
  • [23/06/2005 23:31] <Obarskyr> the germans 'satzung' is defined here http://www.wikimedia.de/satzung.html
  • [23/06/2005 23:31] <Anthere> Angela, in any cases, did not Jimbo want to clarify a couple of things with their bylaws ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Obarskyr> looking for the english now ;)
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Anthere> Dedalus_ that will
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <kim_bruning> GerardM, ask jimbo first!
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Angela> Anthere: not that I know of
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <kim_bruning> GerardM, The fsf folks are obviously very sensitive re their licences :)
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <oscar-> gotta go now
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Dedalus_> the dutch local chapter is just whatever the WMF wants what a local chapter should be
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Fruggo> bye
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <oscar-> bye :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <GerardM> I have on several occasions .. but getting an answer is trickier
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <kim_bruning> oscar-, see you!
  • [23/06/2005 23:32] <Obarskyr> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Deutschland/Satzung/English (english version)
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <galwaygirl> bye oscar-
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <kim_bruning> GerardM, well jimbo is WORKING ON IT
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <oscar-> see you all :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> I have one small point in 9
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <kim_bruning> GerardM, if you torpedo him , well, you're in the same boat!
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> # It is selfless and its aims are primarily non-profit.
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <oscar-> if no one objects, i can post the log later?
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> "it is selfless" does not sound legal to me :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <oscar-> (i'll read it to check)
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> bye oscar
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Fruggo> oscar- yes
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Fruggo> fine by me
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> you'll make another meeting later
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <Anthere> fine to me
  • [23/06/2005 23:33] <kim_bruning> posting logs good
  • [23/06/2005 23:34] * Anthere notes wikispecies is not mentionned :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:34] <Angela> Jimbo supposedly had a meeting with Eben Moglen about it last week but I don't think anything significant came of it
  • [23/06/2005 23:34] <GerardM> Anthere, you are right but, this is a hard one to translate
  • [23/06/2005 23:34] <Anthere> nor wiktionary...
  • [23/06/2005 23:35] <Anthere> Angela, it is mostly planification for september
  • [23/06/2005 23:35] <Anthere> oh si, found wiktionary
  • [23/06/2005 23:35] <Anthere> ah, this is wikicommons missing
  • [23/06/2005 23:36] <Dedalus_> the dutch original specifies in section 6 that the enumeration is not limitative
  • [23/06/2005 23:36] <Anthere> I must say, there is a sentence which makes me tick
  • [23/06/2005 23:36] <Anthere> no problem dedalus
  • [23/06/2005 23:36] <Anthere> but
  • [23/06/2005 23:36] <Anthere> if the translation is not full, it is embarassing :-(
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Anthere> just a question
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Anthere> 10. No person may benefit through spendings which are not necessary for the promotion of its aims or through disproportionally high payments.
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Anthere> do you intend to have employees ? or to pay people ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Angela> it's only a draft isn't it?
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Dedalus_> it is exactly section 7 of german bylaws
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Angela> I think they're leaving the options open for that possibility
  • [23/06/2005 23:37] <Dedalus_> we don't intend now to hire anyone
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <Anthere> Dedalus... what you mean to do is YOUR bylaws
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <Anthere> not the german ones
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <Anthere> do what fit you
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <Dedalus_> it is legalese to say you are non-profit and a tax deductible charity
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <GerardM> There is a chance that we could have employees. It is not that hard to get subsidies for that
  • [23/06/2005 23:38] <kim_bruning> Anthere, Gerard intends to pay people yes :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <GerardM> It is just defining what they would do and how it would fit in our objectives
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <Dedalus_> but not disproportionally high
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, we don't?
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <Anthere> selfless is not legalese
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <kim_bruning> I thought we already had?
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <kim_bruning> ^^;;
  • [23/06/2005 23:39] <kim_bruning> maybe I'm confused
  • [23/06/2005 23:40] <Angela> dejavu
  • [23/06/2005 23:40] <GerardM> We already pay people on the WMF level
  • [23/06/2005 23:40] <Dedalus_> Anthere: i will discuss the legalese with a notary - if he objects or suggests another word, it is fine with me
  • [23/06/2005 23:42] <Anthere> GerardM not exactly similar
  • [23/06/2005 23:42] <Dedalus_> the dutch reads: "Haar activiteiten zijn onbaatzuchtig en haar primair streven is niet gericht op vervulling van haar eigen behoeften." which does sounds high legalese to me
  • [23/06/2005 23:42] <GerardM> We can still have the text verified by a solicitor of Kennisnet .. we just have to formulate the questions .. somehting we did not do so far
  • [23/06/2005 23:42] <Anthere> wmf pays people to do daily uncontroversial work
  • [23/06/2005 23:42] <GerardM> We would also pay people for uncontroversial work
  • [23/06/2005 23:43] <Dedalus_> is there something in the statement of purpose which contradicts the WMF bylaws or intentions of the board of the WMF?
  • [23/06/2005 23:43] <Angela> it's probably going to be less controversial for chapters to employ people than for the Founfation to do so
  • [23/06/2005 23:43] <GerardM> Then again, it is possible to find money do things for the WMF and be completely outside of the WMF or its chapters
  • [23/06/2005 23:43] <Anthere> not to do things for the wmf
  • [23/06/2005 23:44] <Anthere> to do things for wikipedia or other projects
  • [23/06/2005 23:44] <Anthere> this is different
  • [23/06/2005 23:45] <GerardM> Anthere, you are talking shades of grey. I can define things that would benefit the WMF and do them getting payed by non-WMF money
  • [23/06/2005 23:45] <kim_bruning> Actually, I'm wondering if mr. moglen is licenced to like work in the netherlands
  • [23/06/2005 23:45] <kim_bruning> I have this slight feeling that maybe he is
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <kim_bruning> so since we're talking with the guy anyway :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Anthere> GerardM, when you pay money without specific agreement of the WMF, there is no reason it is considered for or by the WMF
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Anthere> do not confuse things
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <kim_bruning> OTOH, maybe that's not nescesary :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <kim_bruning> Anthere, good point
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Angela> would the chapter need specific agreement of the WMF to pay someone?
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Anthere> nope
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Dedalus_> Anthere: Angela , any objections to establishing a vereniging as a local chapter of the WMF with the discussed statement of purpose, except for checking some legalese?
  • [23/06/2005 23:46] <Anthere> but they should not claim it is supported or for or by the foundation then
  • [23/06/2005 23:47] <GerardM> Anthere, when I do work for the WMF and I do get payed to do it. If it is work the WMF is happy with what is the issue ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:47] <Anthere> one board member being happy does not mean the WMF supports the job :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:47] <Anthere> or I could work and pretend the ONU supports my job
  • [23/06/2005 23:48] <Angela> Dedalus_: as long as there's consensus it should be a vereniging, and the bylaws are finalised properly, then yes
  • [23/06/2005 23:48] <Anthere> just because one person there does :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:48] <GerardM> FYI I am not getting payed for anything at this time
  • [23/06/2005 23:49] <Dedalus_> GerardM: who will be the third person to get this thing established?
  • [23/06/2005 23:49] <Obarskyr> do you only need three for that ? are you sure ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:49] <GerardM> There are several people, Oscar said on several occasions that we would not mind to be the chairman
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <Anthere> Dedalus, sort of, but I'd like to talk with Oscar another time
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <Dedalus_> Angela and Anthere with the log of this chat in hand I will check all the legalese with a notary
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <Anthere> nod
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <GerardM> Dedalus, I have already a contact with a notary ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <Anthere> very good
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <Dedalus_> GerardM: oscar said several times he doesn't want to be president
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, Go to the notary with gerard
  • [23/06/2005 23:50] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, he has one available
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <GerardM> He does not want to spend too much time on it
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, in fact he's got most of the framework ready say
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <Angela> shouldn't this be finalised more before you go to the notary? That seems like a very final step
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <Dedalus_> I didn't mention a specific notary, just said " a notary "
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, sure! :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, just pointing out we got one! :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <GerardM> .. ok ..
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <Anthere> I agree with Angela
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <kim_bruning> Angela, yes
  • [23/06/2005 23:51] <kim_bruning> Angela, we'll be following oscars timeline
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <Angela> also, the Foundation need a full English translation before we can really approve it. The current one isn't an exact match it seems
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] * kim_bruning looks at the rest of the channel
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <kim_bruning> We *WILL* be doing that, right?
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: what, getting the approval of the board?
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, we WILL be following oscars timeline right?
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <kim_bruning> I'd like for him to be key organizer here
  • [23/06/2005 23:52] <GerardM> That should be a conditio sine qua non
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <Angela> what is Oscar's timeline?
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <Fruggo> ah, erm, did I miss anything?
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <Anthere> ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <kim_bruning> Anthere, Angela: rough summary is take stuff one step at a time
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <kim_bruning> I'd like oscar to be leading in this :-)
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <Dedalus_> a notary will check the legalese, makes a final draft, we will translate to english and distribute and ask for approval before finally establishing anything
  • [23/06/2005 23:53] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: sounds like a good plan
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, translate to english first, then notary, then again
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <Anthere> hmmmm
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, rinse, wash, repeat
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <Anthere> in my fair opinion, first english
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <Fruggo> anthere: why?
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <Anthere> I have the strange feeling, some stuff are missing there
  • [23/06/2005 23:54] <kim_bruning> Anthere, agreed
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  • [23/06/2005 23:55] <Dedalus_> what is missing?
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Anthere> I am looking for italian bylaws
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Anthere> do you remember their adress angela ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Angela> what about details like when you will have meetings, and whether it's legal to have those online
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Anthere> like elections
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Anthere> president, board and that sort of stuff
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Angela> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Italia/bylaws#English_version
  • [23/06/2005 23:56] <Anthere> members
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Dedalus_> we did discuss the statement of purpose
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <GerardM> these things will be in the "reglementen" they can be changed freely
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Anthere> ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Anthere> which number ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <kim_bruning> GerardM, EH?
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Fruggo> is it possible to say all that in the reglementen?
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <kim_bruning> GerardM, we don't want to turn it into a nomic!
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <kim_bruning> GerardM, do make some bits and pieces very nasty to change please :)
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Anthere> legally, I am not sure this is possible
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <GerardM> Waht is a nomic ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <Dedalus_> all other articles of the bylaws will follow a dutch standard
  • [23/06/2005 23:57] <kim_bruning> GerardM, If you have to ask, you're in trouble. Look it up
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <GerardM> things like on-line meetings and the legality will be in the reglementen
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <Angela> shouldn't things like the board setup be more permanent? Why would that go in the reglementen?
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <kim_bruning> Nomic
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <kim_bruning> Angela, precicely
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <GerardM> The board setup needs by law at least three persons with a specific role
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <Dedalus_> if you like to read all articles: http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conceptstatuten_Wikimedia_Nederland
  • [23/06/2005 23:58] <Angela> membership and the board isn't something that should easily change
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <GerardM> all the rest can go in the regelementen
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Anthere> I am perplex because I think a minimum is required
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  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Dedalus_> a minimum is required in http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conceptstatuten_Wikimedia_Nederland
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Anthere> I am not certain law is so different between our countries
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Fruggo> anthere: I agree
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <GerardM> Anthere the minimun is three
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <kim_bruning> GerardM, roughly, Nomic is a game where you start out with some base rules, and the objective is to change the rules until the rules say that you win.
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Anthere> what minimum ?
  • [23/06/2005 23:59] <Angela> can you check this before paying for a notary?
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <Fruggo> did anyone check the Burgerlijk Wetboek for things like this?
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <Dedalus_> check what? minimum number of board members?
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <GerardM> Angela, we can meet with the lawyers of Kennisnet for free. We just have to know what to ask
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <GerardM> The BW says three
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <Fruggo> dedalus: no, rules about membership, online meetings etc., what is necessary to say in the bylaws
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <Angela> check what needs to be in the bylaws and what parts are allowed to be left to the reglementen
  • [24/06/2005 00:00] <Fruggo> GerardM: this isn't about the number of people needed
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <Dedalus_> it is all ruled in http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conceptstatuten_Wikimedia_Nederland
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <GerardM> I have been to a notary to be informed about these things
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <Anthere> I see...
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <Anthere> it is mostly not translated
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <GerardM> Angela, everything that does NOT need to be in the bylaws will not be in the bylaws
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <Dedalus_> Angela: any notary in the Netherlands will pass http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conceptstatuten_Wikimedia_Nederland as it is conformant to their standard
  • [24/06/2005 00:01] <Anthere> the problem is that we do not speak nl
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <kim_bruning> Anthere, also, oscar probably knows most of this stuff by heart
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <Dedalus_> i understand you like to see a full translation
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <GerardM> You do not speak Italian either I think :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <Angela> it can't be an official chapter until we can see what we're approving
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <kim_bruning> Dedalus_, {{sofixit}} / {{doeerdanwataan}} ! ;-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <Fruggo> i do not know the bylaws by heart, do we state the way we organise meetings for all members?
  • [24/06/2005 00:02] <kim_bruning> Angela, roger, That's very clear and understood
  • [24/06/2005 00:03] <Angela> I'm just worried about this being rushed when not all the points are agreed upon, and Jimbo hasn't seen them at all
  • [24/06/2005 00:04] <GerardM> It will take at least another month before we will have this vereniging
  • [24/06/2005 00:04] <Anthere> so ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:04] <Anthere> it is no big deal
  • [24/06/2005 00:04] <Anthere> all chapters took time
  • [24/06/2005 00:05] <GerardM> We will not heedlessly rush into a vereniging.. It is just that we can make more speed that we have done so far
  • [24/06/2005 00:05] <Fruggo> example: if you do not say anything about how anyone can become a member, you have to follow article 2:33 BW, so you do not have any freedom to change that in the reglementen!
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] <GerardM> we can have multiple IRL meetings, but a chat like this raises the questions as well and much more publicly
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] <Angela> talk to some lawyers, have a real life meeting, translate the bylaws, get board approval, find some members. have an election... I expect it could easily take more than month
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] <Anthere> :-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] * Anthere loves raising questions
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] <Dedalus_> Fruggo: that is ruled in http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conceptstatuten_Wikimedia_Nederland articles 4, 5 and 6
  • [24/06/2005 00:06] * GerardM loves Anthere for raising questions :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Anthere> you better
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Anthere> cause I will not stop
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Anthere> :-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Dedalus_> sleep well everybody
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Dedalus_> bye
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <--| Dedalus_ has left #nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Anthere> night dedalus
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Quistnix> g'night
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Anthere> too late
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <GerardM> No, it is a privilige to love you ,,
  • [24/06/2005 00:07] <Fruggo> Dedalus: but this means that the "minumum" bylaws people are talking about are not as minimal as they want...
  • [24/06/2005 00:08] <GerardM> Dedalus left ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:08] <Anthere> a bit shortly...
  • [24/06/2005 00:08] <Fruggo> yeah, i see that now :(
  • [24/06/2005 00:08] <GerardM> But the splitting into parts is what a notary does for a living ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:08] <Anthere> how much is a notary visit ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <GerardM> It depends the first time it is for free. When he starts writing his clock starts ticking
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <Fruggo> did anyone already comment on article 4 which states that members have te apply "schriftelijk"?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, on paper?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, does anyone still do that?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <kim_bruning> what's paper again?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: yes, thanks?
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <Fruggo> ?=.
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <Fruggo> paper, hmm...
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] * kim_bruning vaguely recalls something about corpses of dead trees
  • [24/06/2005 00:09] <Fruggo> that stuff that comes out of your printer:)
  • [24/06/2005 00:10] <kim_bruning> ugh! Who'd want to use that?
  • [24/06/2005 00:10] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, I haven't had a printer for maybe 10 years or so
  • [24/06/2005 00:10] <Fruggo> wow
  • [24/06/2005 00:11] <GerardM> hmm that is something that can be changed. It may be that it is required as a legal thingie.. alternatively we have to send a letter to confirm it ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:11] <Fruggo> GerardM: don't see any reason for that
  • [24/06/2005 00:11] <Obarskyr> the reason is, that only natural persons can be member of a vereniging
  • [24/06/2005 00:11] <GerardM> Well I am not a lawyer .. one of the things to ask
  • [24/06/2005 00:12] <Fruggo> art 2:33 BW suggests we can decide for ourselves how anyone can become a member
  • [24/06/2005 00:13] <GerardM> Sounds good. It also sounds that you have the text of the law at your fingers :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:13] <Fruggo> Obarskyr: I believe not
  • [24/06/2005 00:13] <Fruggo> Obarskyr: see art. 2:34 BW
  • [24/06/2005 00:14] <Fruggo> Tenzij de statuten van de vereniging anders bepalen, gaat het lidmaatschap van een rechtspersoon die door fusie of splitsing ophoudt te bestaan, over op de verkrijgende rechtspersoon onderscheidenlijk overeenkomstig de aan de akte van splitsing gehechte beschrijving op een van de verkrijgende rechtspersonen.
  • [24/06/2005 00:16] <Obarskyr> yes rechtspersoon, look for the definition of that
  • [24/06/2005 00:16] <Fruggo> we've been discussing things for an hour and a half now, what do we do? there don't seem to be much decisions made, maybe an real life meeting is necessary?
  • [24/06/2005 00:16] <GerardM> Practically, we have always assumed that we would only have natural persons as members.. it is a bit silly not to allow organisations to be a member of our "vereniging"
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <GerardM> A real life meeting is great, we just need to fix a date ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <kim_bruning> GerardM, but that means microsoft can join!
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <kim_bruning> Oh *DRAT*
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <kim_bruning> Time to look at FSFs anti-takeover tactics too ^^;;
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <GerardM> Have an agenda for the meeting ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <GerardM> So Microsoft becomes a member .. only one vote it will give him .. :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:17] <kim_bruning> GerardM, agenda or schedule?
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <kim_bruning> GerardM, agenda is a false friend
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <kim_bruning> I recall something about being opposed to voting btw O:-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <Fruggo> Obarskyr, I don't believe the BW gives a definition of 'rechtspersoon', it does state who possesses 'rechtspersoonlijkheid'. Examples:
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <GerardM> both actually an agendat for the meeting is needed. A schedule when we want to do what is also great to focus attention
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <Fruggo> Artikel 3
  • [24/06/2005 00:18] <Fruggo> Verenigingen, coöperaties, onderlinge waarborgmaatschappijen, naamloze vennootschappen, besloten vennootschappen met beperkte aansprakelijkheid en stichtingen bezitten rechtspersoonlijkheid.
  • [24/06/2005 00:19] <GerardM> We have discussed several things and to me it looks like we agreed on several things
  • [24/06/2005 00:20] <Obarskyr> well, the bw doesn't look at *[*[rechtspersoon]] ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:21] <GerardM> Kim if you are against voting, what do you propose :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:22] <Fruggo> *[*[rechtspersoon]] also doesn't really give a definition
  • [24/06/2005 00:22] <kim_bruning> wiki policy style consensus? ;-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:23] <GerardM> It would be best to have it ..
  • [24/06/2005 00:23] <GerardM> So how about a date for a real life meeting ?? What can we do to prepare it ??
  • [24/06/2005 00:23] <GerardM> When do we want to have a vereniging ??
  • [24/06/2005 00:24] <Fruggo> we do not want to have a vereniging untill everything is ready for it. If that takes 1 month, that would be nice, but if that takes 6 month, well, then it takes 6 months.
  • [24/06/2005 00:25] <Fruggo> (we = I at least)
  • [24/06/2005 00:25] <Noorse> I think Fruggo's right here...
  • [24/06/2005 00:25] <galwaygirl> me too, don't rush
  • [24/06/2005 00:26] <Noorse> a deadline is healthy als long as it's not turned into a straightjacket...
  • [24/06/2005 00:26] <Obarskyr> Een rechtspersoon is een juridische constructie waardoor een fictieve entiteit op kan treden als een persoon in het rechtsverkeer. Dat wil zeggen, een rechtspersoon kan bezittingen en schulden hebben, contracten sluiten, rechtszaken aanspannen of aangeklaagd worden.
  • [24/06/2005 00:26] <Noorse> but not a deadline by which everything *has* to be signed alive or dead..
  • [24/06/2005 00:27] <galwaygirl> i'd say plan a meeting after the summer. it will be much easier to get people involved
  • [24/06/2005 00:27] <Obarskyr> rechtspersoon is dus bvb een vereniging , die wordt gevormd door natuurlijke personen
  • [24/06/2005 00:27] <Fruggo> what's "fictief" in a rechtspersoon?
  • [24/06/2005 00:27] <Noorse> then it's time to get the translations done properly also
  • [24/06/2005 00:27ut ] <Noorse> sorry - we've got time to...
  • [24/06/2005 00:27] <Fruggo> in=about
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <Obarskyr> i think it is pointing to the fact that a rechtspersoon is represented by one person (head of the vereniging)
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <Obarskyr> or the staff of the vereniging
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, a rechtspersoon doesn't actually have to be a human bean
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <kim_bruning> or even any kind of bean
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <kim_bruning> or even aything remotely connected to this physical real
  • [24/06/2005 00:28] <kim_bruning> realm
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <Fruggo> kim_bruning, a know, it's my job to know!
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <Anthere> hmmm
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <kim_bruning> can be something imaginary :-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, Ok then! ;-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, you're a lawyer? :-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <Fruggo> no, but I did studie law
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, I see
  • [24/06/2005 00:29] <Fruggo> I concentrate on labour law now
  • [24/06/2005 00:30] <Fruggo> (before you all thing I'm an expert on verenigingsrecht ;) )
  • [24/06/2005 00:30] <Fruggo> thing = think
  • [24/06/2005 00:31] <Obarskyr> but see if fictive (=online) persons can form a vereniging (be members of it is enough) and the vereniging is a rechtspersoon, that has legal rights of a natuurlijke persoon, you have a circle thats round ... and makes the vereniging fictive and the rights of the vereniging fictive too
  • [24/06/2005 00:32] <Fruggo> Obarskyr, that i am online does not mean that i am fictitional
  • [24/06/2005 00:32] <Obarskyr> so you can control if i log in with 20 persons now ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <Fruggo> no, but i am real, flesh and blood. that does not change when i go online.
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <GerardM> Hell no. The vereniging has to be a proper organisation with proper people / organisations being its members.. the yearly contribution will not be fictional either
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <kim_bruning> Obarskyr, I dunno if Fruggo can, but I sure can!
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <Obarskyr> sure and to make that sure, the only way to proove it is something written
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <Obarskyr> on paper ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <kim_bruning> Obarskyr, would you accept my digital signature?
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <kim_bruning> Obarskyr, actually paper sucks
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] |<-- Noorse has left irc.freenode.net (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] <kim_bruning> I prefer GPG ;-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:33] * kim_bruning looks innocent
  • [24/06/2005 00:34] <kim_bruning> (you don't have to show your passport to get trusted on paper, for one)
  • [24/06/2005 00:34] <Obarskyr> well i perhaps would, but perhaps the bw would not
  • [24/06/2005 00:34] <Fruggo> Obarskyr, no. paper is not necessary. digital siganture is legal as well, meeting in person is, making a agreement by phone is, etc.
  • [24/06/2005 00:34] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, digital sig is legal these days?
  • [24/06/2005 00:34] <Fruggo> the bw does too. paper isn't nessecary for an agreement.
  • [24/06/2005 00:35] <Fruggo> kim_bruning: it is, but there are certain conditions (I believe the sig has to be registered somewhere)
  • [24/06/2005 00:35] <Obarskyr> see and there you come to a point making online registrations 'difficult'
  • [24/06/2005 00:35] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, Ah, what if I've shown someone my fingerprint and passport?
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <kim_bruning> Fruggo, and you are that someone or trust that someone?
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <kim_bruning> that fair enough?
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <Fruggo> Obarskyr/kim_bruning: it is up to us / the board to trust someone or not, if there is an agreement it is enough
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <kim_bruning> roer
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <kim_bruning> roger
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <Fruggo> an oral agreement is as legal as an agreement on paper
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] -->| Noorse (~mi@c529d01c7.cable.wanadoo.nl) has joined #nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:36] <Obarskyr> sure , but the reglementations can be changed by its members , cant they ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:37] <Fruggo> of course, obarskyr. what do you want to say by that?
  • [24/06/2005 00:37] <Angela> I'm half asleep and trying to do a million things, so I'm going to leave, but I'll read the log later in case I miss anything. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help over the next few weeks as the details get finalised
  • [24/06/2005 00:37] <Obarskyr> well lets think one persons has enough money to pay 30 fees for the 'vereniging' ... it means he has 30 votes ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:37] <Angela> bye for now :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:38] <--| Angela has left #nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:38] <Fruggo> no, every person can be member only once
  • [24/06/2005 00:38] <Obarskyr> and how do you want to control that ?
  • [24/06/2005 00:38] <Fruggo> even if he pays a million times
  • [24/06/2005 00:38] <Fruggo> by stating in the bylaws that reglementen can only be changed at a meeting in person (or anything like that)
  • [24/06/2005 00:39] * GerardM I think I will go to bed too .. I am tired .. :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:39] <kim_bruning> Obarskyr, ask the wise folks
  • [24/06/2005 00:39] <Obarskyr> hmm , well you've got a point ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:40] <Fruggo> thank you :
  • [24/06/2005 00:40] <Fruggo> :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:40] <Obarskyr> *g
  • [24/06/2005 00:40] <Obarskyr> :-)
  • [24/06/2005 00:41] <Obarskyr> well i go to bed now too, i am tired enough to get some sleep before my disastrous exam tomorrow ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:41] <Fruggo> There are more people online here than the number of people who said when they could meet at http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten . What if everyone who intends to come fills in the dates, than we can see if there is a date possible.
  • [24/06/2005 00:41] <Fruggo> by Obarskyr
  • [24/06/2005 00:41] <Fruggo> by = bye
  • [24/06/2005 00:42] <Obarskyr> bye, i would not be able to come on any of the dates ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:42] <Noorse> fruggo - i think we must be a bit more stern than quote "see if there is a date possible"
  • [24/06/2005 00:42] <galwaygirl> Fruggo: do you mean on this short notice?
  • [24/06/2005 00:42] |<-- Obarskyr has left irc.freenode.net ()
  • [24/06/2005 00:42] <galwaygirl> Or later?
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] |<-- GerardM has left irc.freenode.net (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] <galwaygirl> Perhaps after the summer?
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] <Fruggo> galwaygirl: later is fine by me, maybe we should just add some dates.
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] <Quistnix> sint-Juttemis?
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] <galwaygirl> :-) perfect, Q
  • [24/06/2005 00:43] <Fruggo> quistnix: that is the risk, but a meeting with only 3 attendants just isn't usefull
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Fruggo> maybe late august is possible?
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <galwaygirl> Fruggo: I'll add some dates in september, then any objections?
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Noorse> we can't expect everybody at the same date, maybe not even everybody
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Fruggo> fine by me
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <kim_bruning> Quistnix, thats the day when easter and whitsunday fall on one day?
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Fruggo> Noorse: but a meeting with at least 6 or 7 people would be nice
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Quistnix> right
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Noorse> agree -
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Noorse> but give a dutchman too much rope and nothing gets done
  • [24/06/2005 00:44] <Quistnix> let's put some days on nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <Fruggo> :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> Need a norse person?
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> what do we do
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <Quistnix> and everyone who can come can put his/her name under it
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <Noorse> I think that wat galwaygirl just said could be ok
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> give you a helmet and an axe?
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] * Noorse does not need that :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> Oh hmm, that WOULD get things done fast
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> Noorse, you can do it bare handed?
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <kim_bruning> eek!
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] * kim_bruning takes cover
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] * Noorse sounds horn!
  • [24/06/2005 00:45] <Quistnix> the day that gets most names will be the right day for the meeting
  • [24/06/2005 00:46] <Noorse> jes
  • [24/06/2005 00:46] <Fruggo> bijvoorbeeld 27/28 augustus, 3/4/10/11 september
  • [24/06/2005 00:46] <Fruggo> a week-day wouln't be possible i think?
  • [24/06/2005 00:46] <Noorse> but take into account that many things starts in august... esp. with students, of which there is a number here
  • [24/06/2005 00:47] <Fruggo> maybe we should just add all weekends in august and september, and see which date is best
  • [24/06/2005 00:47] <Noorse> sounds ok - but then ask ppl to give 2 dates - and not only one
  • [24/06/2005 00:47] <Noorse> otherwise we get too wide a spread
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Quistnix> at least 2
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Quistnix> more is fine
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Noorse> jep
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Noorse> just to be sure
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Noorse> iedereen moet minimaal 2 dagen opgeven waarop ze kunnen
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Noorse> anders wordt het gauw dat er op iedere datum 3-4 mensen kunnen...
  • [24/06/2005 00:48] <Noorse> en dan zijn we er nog niet
  • [24/06/2005 00:49] <Noorse> ok idea?
  • [24/06/2005 00:49] <Fruggo> ok
  • [24/06/2005 00:50] <galwaygirl> done
  • [24/06/2005 00:50] <Noorse> Great!
  • [24/06/2005 00:50] <galwaygirl> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten#Na_IRC-overleg
  • [24/06/2005 00:51] <Noorse> what do we need to get done before that date?
  • [24/06/2005 00:51] <Noorse> translations?
  • [24/06/2005 00:51] <Fruggo> nu met z'n allen bewerkingsconflicten gaan veroorzaken ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:51] <Noorse> neee that wouldn't hack it :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Noorse> anthere 's still here :) shall we go on in english?
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Fruggo> yes, but my english gave up on me again :(
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <mark-> good opportunity to exercise your french ;)
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Noorse> :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Fruggo> mais oui
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Fruggo> c'est bien
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Noorse> je ne parlez pas franscais me thinks
  • [24/06/2005 00:52] <Quistnix> language switch was blocked?
  • [24/06/2005 00:53] <Noorse> ok :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:53] <Noorse> weren't there something that still needed translation?
  • [24/06/2005 00:53] <Quistnix> Je suis Napoleon :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:53] <--| effeietsanders has left #nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:53] <Noorse> watch out for the poison
  • [24/06/2005 00:54] * Noorse kicks napoleon to st. helens
  • [24/06/2005 00:54] <Quistnix> They put a large slab over him...as if they were afraid he would rise again :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:54] <gpvos> je ne suis pas Napoleon, je suis un aeroplane!
  • [24/06/2005 00:54] <Noorse> down to business?
  • [24/06/2005 00:55] * Noorse tower calling red fast fox - pleaseland immediately :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:55] <Quistnix> Elly has landed on #nl.wikipedia
  • [24/06/2005 00:55] * gpvos stands again with both feet on the ground
  • [24/06/2005 00:55] <Noorse> thank you :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:56] <galwaygirl> noorse, there's a list of things to do before a meeting on *[*[Wikimedia:Ontmoeten]]
  • [24/06/2005 00:56] <Noorse> :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:56] <Noorse> great!
  • [24/06/2005 00:56] <Quistnix> first, ad will have to shave, if he wants to join :)
  • [24/06/2005 00:57] <Fruggo> galwaygirl: I can't find the list of things to do
  • [24/06/2005 00:58] <Noorse> hmmm
  • [24/06/2005 00:58] <galwaygirl> http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten#taakverdeling
  • [24/06/2005 00:58] * Quistnix can't find anything there :=/
  • [24/06/2005 00:58] * Noorse hands quist his glasses
  • [24/06/2005 00:59] * Quistnix is cleaning glasses...cat paws all over them
  • [24/06/2005 01:01] <ad-> can someone hand me a pocketknife?
  • [24/06/2005 01:02] * Noorse hands it to ad
  • [24/06/2005 01:02] <ad-> will be a bloody job shaving with that one
  • [24/06/2005 01:02] <Noorse> is quite sharp :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:02] <Noorse> just one more thing, I believe for now....
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <Noorse> We'd probably need an agenda -
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <kim_bruning> agenda is a false friend
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <kim_bruning> don't you mean schedule?
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <Noorse> yes and no
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <gpvos> there's one just above the taakverdeling
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <Noorse> ok
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <kim_bruning> or do you really mean you have a dark and murky evil agenda?
  • [24/06/2005 01:03] <kim_bruning> ;-)
  • [24/06/2005 01:04] <Noorse> but - would it be good to get i.e. Oscar and Quistnix to have a look at it and if necessary update it?
  • [24/06/2005 01:04] <Noorse> that way we can cover any topics from tonight too.
  • [24/06/2005 01:04] <Noorse> Qustnix?
  • [24/06/2005 01:04] <kim_bruning> (an agenda is something like een programma (oals een verkiezingsprogramma) , maar het kan ook vaak negatief worden gebruikt)
  • [24/06/2005 01:04] <Noorse> I know
  • [24/06/2005 01:05] <Noorse> but this one's not supposed to be hidden ;)
  • [24/06/2005 01:05] <kim_bruning> KK
  • [24/06/2005 01:05] <Fruggo> time to sleep now; bye!
  • [24/06/2005 01:05] <Noorse> sleep tight!
  • [24/06/2005 01:06] |<-- Fruggo has left irc.freenode.net ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 *[Firefox 1.0.3/20050414]")
  • [24/06/2005 01:06] =-= galwaygirl is now known as Galwaygirl-weg
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Quistnix> oops
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Quistnix> someone called me?
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <ad-> agenda is a perfectly correct word
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Noorse> I did :) - quote...
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Noorse> 04*[01:06] Noorse: 01but - would it be good to get i.e. Oscar and Quistnix to have a look at it and if necessary update it?
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Noorse> 04*[01:06] Noorse: 01that way we can cover any topics from tonight too.
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <Noorse> 04*[01:06] Noorse: 01Qustnix?
  • [24/06/2005 01:07] <--| cicero- has left #nl.wikimedia
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Anthere> I still follow from time to time :-)
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Noorse> as Oscar's not here... and you still are :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Noorse> that's why I keep on in english Anthere :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Quistnix> I want to do that, together with Oscar
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Anthere> but do as you feel it best please
  • [24/06/2005 01:08] <Noorse> ok - you two review it then
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] <Noorse> anthere: you have seen what we have tried to settle here the last 20 minutes?
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] <Quistnix> ok
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] <Noorse> thanks :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] * Quistnix is smelling sulphuric acid now :-(
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] <Noorse> it's not you
  • [24/06/2005 01:09] <Quistnix> there was a fire...
  • [24/06/2005 01:10] <Noorse> the factory exploded..
  • [24/06/2005 01:10] <Quistnix> ...hope I don't have to close all my windows tonight
  • [24/06/2005 01:10] <Noorse> suppose you could pretend Nerdie the cat ate something?
  • [24/06/2005 01:11] <Quistnix> ;)
  • [24/06/2005 01:13] <Anthere> yup
  • [24/06/2005 01:14] <Noorse> ok :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:15] <Anthere> are you guys all coming to wikimania ?
  • [24/06/2005 01:15] <Anthere> one chance you have is that many of you live near the others
  • [24/06/2005 01:15] <Noorse> afraid not...
  • [24/06/2005 01:15] <Noorse> my vacation is at another time...
  • [24/06/2005 01:18] <Anthere> hmmmm, time to go to bed
  • [24/06/2005 01:18] <Anthere> already very late
  • [24/06/2005 01:18] <Quistnix> ok
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Noorse> sweet dreams :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Anthere> good night to survivors :-)
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] * Quistnix thinks wikimania is nice...
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Quistnix> ...but another time
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Anthere> hope it will
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <--| jeroenvrp has left #nl.wikimedia ("Get me out of here")
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Anthere> I am trying to get some participants from far away
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Quistnix> Hope you'll enjoy yourself there
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Anthere> got some funds
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] <Anthere> I hope
  • [24/06/2005 01:19] * Anthere still has not prepared her talk AT ALL
  • [24/06/2005 01:20] <Noorse> break a leg...
  • [24/06/2005 01:20] <Quistnix> As soon as we are somewhat better organized things will change, I hope
  • [24/06/2005 01:20] <Quistnix> :) you still have plenty of time
  • [24/06/2005 01:20] <Quistnix> 1. Do you know what you will be talking about?
  • [24/06/2005 01:20] <mark-> I hope I can come to wikimania
  • [24/06/2005 01:21] <mark-> it makes sense for me, as dev/siteadmin
  • [24/06/2005 01:21] <mark-> but including the hacking days, that's a whole week... expensive :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:22] <Quistnix> 2. Do you have enough to talk about to fill the time reserved for your speech?
  • [24/06/2005 01:22] <Anthere> africa...
  • [24/06/2005 01:22] <Anthere> Quistnix papers are due
  • [24/06/2005 01:22] <Anthere> euh, already due
  • [24/06/2005 01:22] <Anthere> and slides early july
  • [24/06/2005 01:23] <Anthere> enough ?
  • [24/06/2005 01:23] <Anthere> dunno
  • [24/06/2005 01:23] <Anthere> I am quite optimistic
  • [24/06/2005 01:23] <Quistnix> :) as long as you know what they expect to hear you talking about...
  • [24/06/2005 01:23] <Anthere> cough
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Quistnix> ...and as log as you *know* what you are talking about, there's no problem :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Anthere> not even really
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Noorse> guys - 10http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Ontmoeten#agenda
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Anthere> That shall do
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Noorse> 10just amended...
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Quistnix> Even better:
  • [24/06/2005 01:24] <Anthere> I will just be late, this, I am certain of
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Quistnix> You can talk about anything you like then!
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Anthere> ah perfect !
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Quistnix> :)
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Anthere> see, I am in time now :-)
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Anthere> good night
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Quistnix> good night!
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Noorse> 10noght!
  • [24/06/2005 01:25] <Noorse> 10night!
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